Again, thank you for your comments. Wish I had another gripe about English. I'm sure one will come up sooner or later.
To take a decision is something a group does and it's an action that was done in the past.".... That decision was taken.... , they then took a decision on the matter"...and really the word would be " made" in 90% of the time.
My British neighbors, who are quite daft in most ways, TAKE decisions all the time, even though they're usually wrong. They have bad judgment in general and she is drunk by noon on most days. I think it's an Anglo thing--a Britishism. But since you are in Istanbul, it doesn't really matter, since although most Americans MAKE decisions, they are apt to also MAKE a mess.
Real people make decisions and take actions.
Committees, because they don't actually do anything except make decisions, would like to flatter themselves by considering decisions to be actions; thus they speak of themselves "taking decisions."
Sunday, March 29, 2009
Monday, March 23, 2009
Taking more decisions...
More comments - thank you!
I'm from the midwest and we all make our decisions. I've never taken mine anywhere.
In Hollywood, one takes a meeting...to make decisions.
Because I now do considerable editing work, I am intrigued by the question you raise about "taking a decision." I did a tiny bit of Internet sleuthing and came up with three sets of comments that seem to conclude that "taking a decision" is a Britishism. Are a number of your English-speaking colleagues either British themselves or the products of having learned their English from British teachers? That might explain the use of "taking." I myself always use "make a decision," or, if the end result is generated by deliberation by a group, I think I would use "arrived at a decision."
I'm from the midwest and we all make our decisions. I've never taken mine anywhere.
In Hollywood, one takes a meeting...to make decisions.
Because I now do considerable editing work, I am intrigued by the question you raise about "taking a decision." I did a tiny bit of Internet sleuthing and came up with three sets of comments that seem to conclude that "taking a decision" is a Britishism. Are a number of your English-speaking colleagues either British themselves or the products of having learned their English from British teachers? That might explain the use of "taking." I myself always use "make a decision," or, if the end result is generated by deliberation by a group, I think I would use "arrived at a decision."
Sunday, March 22, 2009
Taking decisions... comments
Thank you for the comments! The following were sent to my e-mail account. If you don't see a comment you sent directly to the blog, I might have accidently deleted it... Please forgive and resend??
A decision is made, or in the case of consensus, "come to", "reached" or "arrived at". This indicates a journey of sorts, weighing pros and cons, considering possibilities along the way and then arriving at a place where deliberation stops and action (or non-action) is "taken". My two cents.
Yes, groups "take" decisions. It's perfectly correct. But it's also a quite formal, and perhaps somewhat pretentious. A lawyer or a clerk of the court might write/speak this way, but I don't think it's normal. In academia, at least the parts I'm familiar with, a department would, after discussion, "conclude" or "decide". If there were a lot of argument, the department might "reach a conclusion". I can imagine the faculty as a whole "taking" a decision, though, or a board of directors, so probably the phrase has legal, or legalistic, overtones.
I make decisions. My children make decisions. The committee made a decision.
I take pills. My children take pills. The committee takes no chances.
I outen the ligh--- oh no that's Pennsylvania Dutch.....
I think the difference has to do with British/American English. In England, people regularly take decisions. In America we make them. I think.
Taking a Decision
One of the hazards of being an expat is developing the potential to use your own language incorrectly, not in big glaring ways, but in little ones, and not realizing it. Once in a while, I catch myself saying “I opened my phone” instead of saying “I answered” it, even after many frustrating attempts to convince a student that one turns on the lights/projector/television etc. I’ve almost resigned myself to “opening” rather than “turning on.”
There are misuses of certain words, however, that irritate. Forget about kids who announce “Hocam, I’m boring,” (indeed Tolgay, you are) in the middle of the lesson, or those who say “funny” instead of “fun,” or “scary” rather than “scared.” I can’t really be too fussy about that, especially since I only learned grammar through studying other languages.
No, the examples that grate on my nerves usually come up in the English office. For a group of people whose job it is to foster communication, we do it very poorly. Announcements are not announced in meetings, but are posted on the walls, bulletin boards and storage spaces. Posts have included such gems as: “All unit plans must be sent until Friday.” (“Until” instead of “by” is frequently tossed around because, I think, it’s the same word in Turkish.) I fixed it after about the 3rd such notice.
The following example annoys me no end, and not just because I really like to be right as often as possible. At my school, we “take decisions.” To me, this is like nails on a chalk board. Never in my life have I heard of a “decision taken” until I started to teach here. Where I come from, we make them, we don’t take them. Like “opening the lights,” the source seems to be from a direct translation from Turkish. Finally, I asked – and politely thank you! – if I could change the notice on the white board to read “made” rather than “taken” and explained my reasoning. We just don’t say it.
The following morning, my colleague opened a Longman dictionary (the same one we insist the kids buy but seldom if never use) to show me that decisions are indeed taken, but when they are taken by a group after deliberation. Far be it from me to argue with the dictionary. The dictionary has all kinds of good, useful but not often or differently used words. I admitted the error of my ways.
And yet, I’m still bothered. As a result, I’d like to take an informal survey of my fellow native English speaking friends. Do you ever take decisions, with or without a group, sans or avec deliberation? Please don’t look it up in the dictionary, just let me know how you express the completed act of coming to a decision. I'll post your responses.
I thank you in advance.
There are misuses of certain words, however, that irritate. Forget about kids who announce “Hocam, I’m boring,” (indeed Tolgay, you are) in the middle of the lesson, or those who say “funny” instead of “fun,” or “scary” rather than “scared.” I can’t really be too fussy about that, especially since I only learned grammar through studying other languages.
No, the examples that grate on my nerves usually come up in the English office. For a group of people whose job it is to foster communication, we do it very poorly. Announcements are not announced in meetings, but are posted on the walls, bulletin boards and storage spaces. Posts have included such gems as: “All unit plans must be sent until Friday.” (“Until” instead of “by” is frequently tossed around because, I think, it’s the same word in Turkish.) I fixed it after about the 3rd such notice.
The following example annoys me no end, and not just because I really like to be right as often as possible. At my school, we “take decisions.” To me, this is like nails on a chalk board. Never in my life have I heard of a “decision taken” until I started to teach here. Where I come from, we make them, we don’t take them. Like “opening the lights,” the source seems to be from a direct translation from Turkish. Finally, I asked – and politely thank you! – if I could change the notice on the white board to read “made” rather than “taken” and explained my reasoning. We just don’t say it.
The following morning, my colleague opened a Longman dictionary (the same one we insist the kids buy but seldom if never use) to show me that decisions are indeed taken, but when they are taken by a group after deliberation. Far be it from me to argue with the dictionary. The dictionary has all kinds of good, useful but not often or differently used words. I admitted the error of my ways.
And yet, I’m still bothered. As a result, I’d like to take an informal survey of my fellow native English speaking friends. Do you ever take decisions, with or without a group, sans or avec deliberation? Please don’t look it up in the dictionary, just let me know how you express the completed act of coming to a decision. I'll post your responses.
I thank you in advance.
Sunday, March 15, 2009
Moonlight
Unless it’s raining or I’m wearing impractical shoes, my favorite part of the day is walking home from the bus stop. Turn right at the mosque and down the steep hill. Below and to the left, the Fatih Sultan Mehmet Bridge spans the Bosphorus. The endless stream of cars crosses under its lights contrasting with my peaceful street.
Last week, there was a full moon. In the evening, the ever present clouds cleared. The moon shone brightly to the right of the bridge, visible between buildings flanking the street. An elderly woman walking ahead of me set her bags on the ground. She turned moonwards, and with eyes closed and elbows bent, placed her hands palms up in a gesture of prayer. She mouthed silently. I didn’t want to interrupt her private moment, yet couldn’t help sneaking peaks at her as I passed. I doubt she knew that she had provided me with a most beautiful instant.
Last week, there was a full moon. In the evening, the ever present clouds cleared. The moon shone brightly to the right of the bridge, visible between buildings flanking the street. An elderly woman walking ahead of me set her bags on the ground. She turned moonwards, and with eyes closed and elbows bent, placed her hands palms up in a gesture of prayer. She mouthed silently. I didn’t want to interrupt her private moment, yet couldn’t help sneaking peaks at her as I passed. I doubt she knew that she had provided me with a most beautiful instant.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)